Transcript

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello and welcome back to the Gaming Backlog Book Club. We are here for another bookmark episode and today we have a fun topic. Let’s talk about the usage of walkthroughs and strategy guides.

I know this is something that you’re kind of interested in, right? As you even collect some of the older ones. We do yes, reference them occasionally on this podcast because we use them at times for a variety of reasons, different types of guides and they can come in handy especially when we want to enjoy a game without banging our head against the wall for too long. Hell, some games have banging your head against the wall by trialing strategies and techniques as a core mechanic. Souls likes I’m looking at you.

Even though I love that genre of games, it’s still nice to have some help.

So in some cases I’m just not interested in doing that. Both to set up my character properly and also learn the boss movesets and mechanics.

T2T considering we are a backlog community, we have massive backlogs. I would love to pore over every minute my minute detail of how a stat increase on this particular level up will scale up with my weapon of choice, but I just don’t have the time. There are too many other games to get to. So we want to talk a bit further about the usage of strategy guides. And the interesting thing is that with the advent and expanse of the Internet as well as the semi toxic culture of just git gud noob the negativity online pushes many to try to gatekeep other people’s fun saying you’re not playing the game the right way or the real way or you’re not playing as the developer intended. And maybe in some cases the developer did not build something with the intent of somebody using a walkthrough to get through it. But I would wager that the vast majority of developers are actually making their games with the principled desire to desired result being that the players have fun.

Novel concept.

[00:01:51] Speaker B: I know, I know. Yeah, it is.

[00:01:54] Speaker A: And have fun in whatever way that they please and whatever allows them to do that and enjoy the piece of art that’s been created is more appreciated than the millions who will never play more than an hour or ever touch it. And the funniest thing about it is that strategy guides and walkthroughs were an integral part of video game culture back in the days when they were still very much a niche hobby.

[00:02:14] Speaker B: Oh yeah, definitely.

I mean strategy guide. Even before strategy guides. I mean you had the strategy of for Nintendo or that I remember I didn’t use it because I was probably too young. But you had the, you could call the hotline, right, and get tips and tricks to help.

[00:02:31] Speaker A: That’s. I mean, that’s exactly right. So I was definitely going to mention that, you know, before all of the magazine format and online strategy guides, there were those telephone hotlines. I know Nintendo had one. I wouldn’t be surprised if other, you know, developers or companies did it as well. But. So there’s a telephone hotline that you could call and it had an actual call center with real people on the other end, literally full of people waiting for you to ask questions and get some help to continue and make progress.

[00:03:01] Speaker B: I’m not like, obviously, as I said, I never used it because I was a bit too young for that. But I’ve seen it in like documentaries. People call and I like, look at it now and I’m like, that is just so cool. Like, the other people on the end, like, answering the phone calls was like, man, I would have loved that as a job.

[00:03:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I don’t know, just talk about games all day.

[00:03:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I was like, it’s just, I don’t know, it’s really cool. It’s also a way, I guess to like, be more personable and get to talk to somebody instead of just.

[00:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah, right, exactly. So, like, obviously we’re, we’re here trying to replicate our, you know, playground experiences or between classes, when you’d go and chat with someone who was playing the same game as you. That’s the main, main core concept of why we started this podcast.

[00:03:47] Speaker B: Exactly.

[00:03:48] Speaker A: And if you didn’t have that sort of resource or outlet back then, you could just call someone on the phone and they would help you out and be very friendly about it as well. But yes, after we finished Final Fantasy 6 for one of our seasons, I was listening to a number of other podcasts that had episodes about the game and in particular the full eight episode series on it, by a podcast called the gamer looks at 40 and was reminded about just how common it was to use print strategy guys and especially magazines like Nintendo Power to help discover things or learn the right way to even do something as important as advance the story.

You know, a lot of secrets back then could be discovered by sheer force of will and random experimentation. You know, bombing every single wall in the entire level, or someone sharing details on the playground. And in many cases, that person that was sharing those details had Nintendo Power back home and discovered the secret that way to begin with.

[00:04:41] Speaker B: Mm.

[00:04:43] Speaker A: But yes, you know, following the print Strategy guides came the early Internet guides and walkthroughs on sites like game FAQs. And all of those were while not essential, valuable aids for your favorite video games to help you extract more enjoyment out of them. And, you know, going back to the Final Fantasy 6 example, there are so many secrets in that game that I would guess you would have no clue even existed if it weren’t for some of these guides existing.

[00:05:12] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there were. There are a lot. I mean, the only way, you know. Yeah. Is if you go through the guide, figure it out, or, you know, someone who developed the game and friends with them and they can tell you even better. Yeah, there’s a lot of.

[00:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah, and so I know, Right, So I know that you have used guides. I pop into a guide. I mean, especially use them in soulslikes. Right. Like I said before, to kind of streamline my leveling instead of having to respec if it’s available or, you know, restart even worse, because I want to enjoy it the first time. I don’t go for the optimal build or anything, but it’s still valuable.

But yeah, I. I still definitely choose the class and. Or weapons that I’m most interested in based on how much I expect to enjoy it and then find a build guide to help me find the pieces of what I want or the stats to make the weapons more fun to use. But I’m, you know, I’m curious because you.

You have used guides here and there for various things, but I know you collect physical strategy guides and walkthroughs and. And like, especially the original print in some cases, right?

[00:06:16] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. So, I mean. Yeah, so I’ll, you know, talking about my. So I mean, I.

I love the strategy guides. As a kid, especially as younger, I’ll say, like, for. And then you mentioned GameFAQs. Oh, my God. GameFAQs. When I was young, that was the site.

I used GameFAQs a lot. Now I kind of use IGN for a walkthrough more. But GameFAQs, man, GameFax was great.

[00:06:40] Speaker A: They’re still around. Yeah, they have some useful ones here and there.

[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I love my. I love strategy guides. I have, as you said, I’m still. I do collect sometimes. Still some of the older ones that I used to have, like, I still have or I rebot. Like, I saw especially for games that I really enjoy that I loved.

[00:06:58] Speaker A: And I’ve already finished, most likely I’ve already finished, like.

[00:07:01] Speaker B: But I have, like BioShock. I have the. I think all three BioShock game ones. I have the dead space games.

I have some of my all time favorites that I have are. And this is funny for me because this is one of the main things I use strategy guides. Like it’s a strategy guide but not. I have all the NCAA football strategy

[00:07:27] Speaker A: guides because a previous year’s NCAA when you already have the current years.

[00:07:35] Speaker B: It’s been a while. But I love, I remember like for ncaa and I had him from Madden too. I don’t have all the Madden ones. I had a couple Madden ones like Madden 2004 with Michael like that was

[00:07:45] Speaker A: my favorite Madden Michael Vick on the COVID Yeah.

[00:07:48] Speaker B: But I would like, I, I love looking through them.

The team, the team stats. They would go into each individual player and their stats and what they were good at. They would tell you like some good playbooks and good plays they used in the play. And I would just like read them and just go through. It also helped me would pick because back then like franchise was the biggest thing. It would help me like go through and I’d pick like my franchise like the team I’d want to start a franchise with. And those it was just. I love, I loved them. Or like dynasties for ncaa.

But yeah, so those are like just random ones. I know like obviously not strategy wise for the game, but for.

[00:08:28] Speaker A: Right, right.

[00:08:30] Speaker B: To just get all the details. I loved it.

[00:08:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean that’s that and I think that’s what makes them so much fun. Right. And you have a handful of Pokemon ones as well, don’t you?

[00:08:38] Speaker B: I do, yes. Yeah. The Pokemon actually. Yes. So the Pokemon ones I did like use quite a lot, especially for.

I looked at him a lot for like leveling up. Like what level, what attacks am I going to learn? I know obviously it’s all priority.

[00:08:51] Speaker A: Prioritize, prioritize.

[00:08:53] Speaker B: Like yeah, what tacts I’m going to learn. What level do they learn them at? What are they strong against? What are they weak against? Sometimes obviously I did obviously use them also for like where, where to go if I got lost or who to fight or obviously to look up coming of who’s the next gym. Like who am I fighting?

So I have a few of them I don’t have. I do actually have, I think an original strategy guide for Pokemon Blue which I got years ago. I rebought and I’m glad I did because I think I got it for. I don’t even know. It was maybe like 25, 30 bucks. And now these things, some of these Pokemon ones are hundreds of dollars.

[00:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah. That’s not surprising at all. You know, it’s what, the 30th anniversary now? No surprise.

[00:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Some other strategy guys, like I was looking at some Final Fantasy ones.

Like they’ve increased in price a lot. It’s just. It’s not something. Because I remember when we bought them, I think they were like 20 bucks or whatever when they were new. I’d love to walk into games. Not GameStop but EB Games back in the day.

Those EB Games and like you see all the strategy guides there and go over and get the game and the strategy guide usually at the same exact time.

[00:10:02] Speaker A: What I would do for sure.

Yeah.

You know, I can’t. I don’t have the. The exact memory of very specific ones. But I definitely pick some up and I. I did have some. I don’t know if I had a full subscription but I would buy a Nintendo Power when I would see it and it was a game I was enjoying.

[00:10:19] Speaker B: I had a subscription to Nintendo Power. Okay. I do remember that I love.

[00:10:23] Speaker A: May have had one. I don’t remember but I wish I had kept them. Yeah, right.

[00:10:27] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:10:27] Speaker A: I. Very distinctly so. I don’t know if you ever played or even heard of. I just saw recently on Reddit people seem to not know all that much about it. There’s a game back on. I think it was on Game Boy that was basically a Pokemon. A similar to Pokemon concept called Dragon Warrior Monster. And it’s. It’s a spin off of Dragon Quest but it’s. You get to control the monsters within it. And I had a strategy guide for that because they had a full breeding system so you could combine two different monsters and get a new one out of it. And so I remember using something like that for that. The other one I kind of remember was harvest moon. 64.

[00:11:09] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:11:10] Speaker A: Because you needed to know exactly who you were going to woo and how to do it.

I don’t think optimize your crops and all that. But yeah, those are the ones.

[00:11:19] Speaker B: I have that one. Yeah. I don’t think I have that one physical again. I might have to look. That one’s probably just because Harvest Moon itself is an expensive game.

64.

I wouldn’t be shocked if the strategy guide’s like more than 50, 60 bucks, which I don’t want it.

[00:11:32] Speaker A: I would also would not be surprised. Not in the least.

[00:11:35] Speaker B: A couple others that I used and I love and I’ve rebought and they were cheap ones were the Bond games like 007, Nightfire probably one of my favorite Bond games ever, Love Nightfire. And then Everything of Nothing was another one. And Agent Under Fire, I had all the strategy guides for those and I loved looking through those and seeing like some of the secrets that you could do as Bond or getting some of the little achievements or other things that you could do and way tips and ways to get through the mission.

So yeah, those were fun, I think.

[00:12:05] Speaker A: And also it comes to mind, the other thing that I really loved about those old, you know, paper bound strategy guides was on top of the tips and walkthroughs and everything in between, they also had a lot of art in them.

Whether it was concept art or like official promo art of different characters and biomes and all those kinds of things. And it’s, you know, that’s not something that’s easy to find these days.

So it was always cool to kind of flip through those and see the. Whether it was character designs or things before they fully. And now there’s obviously, you know, premium art books that are sold specifically for that reason, which is great and have a handful of them. But you know, it was really cool to get all of that in one package back in the day.

[00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. I mean I.

Yeah, one that comes to mind is actually one that was using semi recently in the last couple years was I replayed the Legend of Mana and I rebought the strategy guide for the Legend of Mana mana. And because I had that game, I remember playing that game with a friend when it originally came out on the PlayStation and we loved it and it was so fun to go back and play. But I was actually using the strategy guide to kind of go through in order of the missions that you do and it was just fun. But then looking through it like all the character, they had, all the character designs, they had other little things, it just, it’s a great looking strategy guide.

[00:13:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean you’re going to have to like put those. Are they on a shelf currently or are they kind of just tucked away?

[00:13:32] Speaker B: I had. No, I have them on a shelf. I have them on a bookshelf actually here behind me.

[00:13:37] Speaker A: Just constantly reminding you what your backlog looks like.

But yeah, I mean, I think that there’s so many elements to the old physical ones, but I, you know, I guess sometimes I’ll use a walkthrough for a game if I’m really just in it for the story as the primary driver and enjoy the gameplay. Absolutely. But don’t want to wander around aimlessly forever and extend the playthrough. So I’ll, you know, use it for a pointer in the right direction, I guess.

I mean, and I’m glad that obviously, I mean so many of the sort of Ubisoft format games use the map markers all over the place that people complain about. There’s the other end, like Breath of the Wild, I feel like did a good job with that of, you know, you can use your camera and mark your somewhere on your map with a pin. Seems a bit more realistic, I suppose, but it’s better. All of those are better than BioShock’s giant flashing arrow when you weren’t immediately going to your next objective.

[00:14:36] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:14:37] Speaker A: Remember that? So I would have. Yeah. So I’m. It’s funny actually that you say that BioShock has one and you own it because the arrow tells you where you need to go or more specifically, where you need to go away from to find your next secret. Hidden secret.

I’ll. I’ll. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:14:56] Speaker B: No, no, nothing. Go ahead.

[00:14:58] Speaker A: I mean, I guess I’ll also definitely use guides or even the training mode in a fighting game, which is kind of like a built in guide anyway because it has your sort of list of combos. It’s really useful to go into training mode or using online guides to learn at least a handful of combo strings for my first attempt at a chosen main character, just because it makes it a lot more fun to start having some interesting attacks to mix in with the other button mashing that I’m doing early on in the fighting game. And it helps me get more invested in that character to see if it’s who I really want to main long term before diving down the path of practicing and adding more moves to the repertoire over time. But yeah, it’s, it’s certainly, certainly a good way to get, get leveled up in experience or in understanding quickly.

[00:15:49] Speaker B: Yes, it is.

[00:15:51] Speaker A: Otherwise you just get destroyed online, you know, arcade mode or whatever, or a story mode if it exists is okay, but it’s, you know, if you need to practice somewhere somehow.

[00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:16:03] Speaker A: For Hades. In our first side quest season, during the many, many runs it took me to get that first win, I steered clear of guides as much as I could and just had some fun experimenting and messing around with all the build varieties that can come out of such a varied group of weapons, abilities and modifiers. And then, you know, build crafting the way I thought was the most fun and especially enjoyed tapping into our Discord community to see what others enjoyed using or how they got their wins. But once I got that win, you know, It’s. I decided to go down the rabbit hole and try out a bunch of different, quote unquote optimized builds that I found from Guides and on Reddit, just to see how overpowered you can become in that game and melt enemies in front of you and enjoy the game a ton that way too. So I don’t think anything should really be an artificial barrier to fun, if you ask me.

[00:16:51] Speaker B: No, it shouldn’t. Not at all.

[00:16:57] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day it’s.

Guides exist for a reason.

Let people have their fun.

Are there any other kind of main points that you have to touch on?

[00:17:09] Speaker B: No, I mean, guides wise, I’ll say. For our Final Fantasy 6 season, I definitely used a little bit, like a good amount, like, closer to the end, I guess, of the game.

[00:17:20] Speaker A: Yeah, sort of. Especially in the open world half. Yep.

[00:17:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And especially through the open world half.

And, yeah, I mean, I. I don’t feel guilty or anything using it. I was just like, I need a little bit of help. I was like, lost in a couple areas. I mean, that’s also the best way of using. There have been, obviously, a lot of games, older games, where I’ve gotten to points where I get stuck. I’m like, I have no idea which way to go. And so you just look it up and try and. Yeah. And figure out which is the way you have to go. Like, maybe I missed talking to somebody over here in this village or whatever it was. And. Yeah, so I.

[00:18:00] Speaker A: It’s not like, you know, you don’t. You don’t need to follow it word for word, step for step. It’s really just a. Give me a pointer and show me a direction to walk in and maybe in someone’s name and, you know, move on.

[00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah. But overall, I mean, as I said, strategy guides, I use them. Yeah, I use the walkthroughs. I do use some walkthroughs online again, for. For games every now and then, but I just. Yeah, I still love it. I know it’s the nostalgia, but I love the original.

Just strategy guides.

They’re so great. And I will. I’ll probably continue collecting them, but it’s mainly for games that I really enjoy, even if I beat it.

And then sometimes potentially for ones like if it’s a. If I see one for an RPG or some other game that I haven’t played yet, but it’s in my backlog and I really want to play, I might pick it up so that when I get to it, I may need some help and I’ll use it and look at it.

[00:18:48] Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, I think, you know, definitely valuable for games that are a bit more cryptic and don’t reveal so much information or don’t have a big glowing indicator of where you should be next.

[00:18:59] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

[00:19:00] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, it’s an interesting discussion overall because there are so many people that are vehemently against it. But you know, I think it’s obviously curious what everyone thinks. Let us know on Discord. But I feel like you and I are definitely not purists by any means since we grew up with strategy guides at least existing and definitely using them here and there. I don’t see any issues with using them really.

[00:19:22] Speaker B: I have no issues. I love. I enjoy looking and reading through them

[00:19:27] Speaker A: and them helping me out where we see a purpose for them and it helps us enjoy the game instead of putting it down and never touching it again.

I guess that’s where we stand, you know, it’s better to enjoy it than DNF it.

[00:19:38] Speaker B: Mm, exactly. Yeah, I agree.

[00:19:42] Speaker A: So yeah, tell us what you think about strategy guides and walkthroughs, Book club members. We definitely want to hear your thoughts.

[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely do.

[00:19:51] Speaker A: And if you’re looking for something else to listen to, check out our current season of the Gaming Backlog Book Club or one of our previous game seasons. And hang on. Also for our next bookmark episode about some other interesting topics related to the video game world that aren’t just about the latest news and reviews.

[00:20:08] Speaker B: Thank you everyone for listening. We appreciate it.

If you want to follow along and discuss our playthrough of games on the Gaming Backlog Book Club podcast, please give us a follow on your podcast platform of Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Amazon Music or Pocketcasts, as well as our Discord and Instagram account under the same name. Thanks.